"Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion" (herrquattro)
06/20/2018 at 18:03 • Filed to: None
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"Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion" (herrquattro)
06/20/2018 at 18:03 • Filed to: None | 1
| 25 |
Hey Guys- I need some advice from the Oppo hive mind. I’m putting my 2004 Passat Wagon back together (finally- after being off the road for 10 months at this point). While taking it apart, I noticed a lot of bolts had this green hue to them.
I did some research, and turns out it’s low strength loctite, to prevent rusting and such. I’d like to put more on these bolts as I put it back together, so that I don’t have to deal with breaking bolts down the line.
I already searched the VW Passat forums, but couldn’t find a good answer.
So what kind of Loctite (or similar stuff) do you guys use on bolts to prevent them from seizing? Do I use red or blue loctite?
And what does 243 vs 271 mean? does it matter?
I also was wondering what type of hose clamps do you guys use- Im looking for some high quality ones. The ones I got from harbor freight are always stripping out so I could use the advice.
Thank You! Green Golf R for your time.
lone_liberal
> Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
06/20/2018 at 18:28 |
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I use blue unless it’s something that I don’t ever want to be able to take apart again.
Highlander-Datsuns are Forever
> Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
06/20/2018 at 18:34 |
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Blue for things you want to dissemble in the future. Red for things that need to stay together forever. I actually use lithium grease on a lot of my bicycle bolts because it allows better torque on the bolts and I’m always checking them anyway. 10/10 would not grease automotive bolts unless specifically required by the MFR.
crowmolly
> lone_liberal
06/20/2018 at 18:35 |
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This. Blue. Numbers depend on use. 242 is the regular stuff, 243 has additional oil resistance.
Red Loctite is for things that are meant to be permanent.
Chariotoflove
> Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
06/20/2018 at 18:38 |
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blue
Blue I use for stuff I want to keep in place but unscrew again later. Red I use for things I expect to keep in permanently.
All that said, you can always remove anyone of these if necessary if you use a solvent.
punkgoose17
> Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
06/20/2018 at 18:51 |
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For hose clamps I recommend the t-bolt type. A lot of the Mishimoto ones look like junk any thing else should be good.
CaptDale - is secretly British
> crowmolly
06/20/2018 at 18:59 |
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Green is extra permanent
SPAMBot - Horse Doctor
> Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
06/20/2018 at 19:00 |
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Are you sure they are not single use stretch bolts? VAG likes to use those.
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crowmolly
> CaptDale - is secretly British
06/20/2018 at 19:01 |
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Not sure if serious...
RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
> Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
06/20/2018 at 19:14 |
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Speaking as the guy who has a 2015 Loctite/Henkel Adhesive Sourcebook at his desk and has attended a seminar they held...
The numbers are pretty much just product numbers. What those products are varies a great deal in the fine details.
For example, your two comparison items, 243 and 271:
243 is 1300/3000 centipoise viscosity, thixotropic, primerless, tolerates surface contaminates, is usable from -65F to 360F, is intended for 1/4 to 3/4 bolts (this has to do with its gap closing abilities, which is related to how anaerobics cure), cures to fixture in 10 minutes, 100% in 24 hours, and has 230lb-in break torque/40.prevail. Which means, I think, that’s it’s resistant to shock, but not necessarily maintained torque.
271 is MIL-SPEC, which 243 isn’t (similar 242 *is*), it can be used for fasteners up to 1", has a 500cP viscosity, same fixture times, is only rated up to 300F, and and has a break torque of 250 ilb-in, prevail of 275.
So, on old fasteners on an engine, in many cases the 243 would be better. The 271 is runnier, works on larger bolts, more sensitive to filth, has much higher resistance to slow twisting but not to vibration loosening.
As to the green, it’s described as “wicking grade”. Comes in various strengths for preassembled parts and weld sealing. So, works like a blue, but is runnier by far and more intended to seal things *after you’ve put them together*.
There’s all kinds of crazy shit Henkel makes. Like 2432, which is for nuclear facilities and black oxide fasteners. Or 425, which is for plastic. Or 2047, which is super thick and for big bolts, with high lubricity, or 248 which is a semisolid in a stick.
Bottom line, your local parts store? Not even scratching the surface of what’s out there.
aquila121
> Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
06/20/2018 at 19:23 |
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Why aren’t more cars this color? Sorry that I have nothing to offer regarding your questions.
themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
> RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
06/20/2018 at 19:24 |
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I miss working at Henkel. We had a loctite branch there so anything you wanted to stick to anything else? Yeah, you can do that. ALways smelled like solvent in there though.
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CaptDale - is secretly British
> crowmolly
06/20/2018 at 19:32 |
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it used to be green that was for fittinings you never wanted to ever remove, but looks like that has changed...
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RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
> themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
06/20/2018 at 19:32 |
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Sleeve repair loctite is basically the coolest shit.
Boxer_4
> themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
06/20/2018 at 19:45 |
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Always smelled like solvent in there though.
You say that like it’s a bad thing...
Jayvincent
> Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
06/20/2018 at 20:33 |
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This is good Oppo, you win a car for your efforts
you can take delivery in Pittsburgh under the 29th street bridge. At least that’s where I parked it, with the keys in the ignition, for you...
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Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
> RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
06/20/2018 at 20:53 |
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So is 242 better then 243?
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RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
> Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
06/20/2018 at 21:02 |
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Not for your purposes, probably. It has a slightly higher prevailing torque, but about half the break-loose torque. I would guess the MIL-SPEC it matches up with is one that likes threadlocker to unlock reasonably easily. Might be better for reuse, not that you should be doing that. They’re pretty similar in the book overall.
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Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
> RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
06/20/2018 at 21:20 |
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Ok, that’s good-ish. Turns out the stuff at Home Depot was 242, and they didn’t have 243.
I figured it’s only 1 less then 243, what’s the worse that can happen?
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Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
> Jayvincent
06/20/2018 at 22:49 |
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That is cruel- to get it would require me to, you know, have a working car lol
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Herr Quattro - Has a 4-motion
> SPAMBot - Horse Doctor
06/21/2018 at 15:04 |
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A bunch are, but I already have the replacement bolts for those.
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SPAMBot - Horse Doctor
> RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
06/22/2018 at 17:28 |
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I actually might need your assistance. Is there a glue that would work to secure a Buna O-ring to 304 stainless?
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RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
> SPAMBot - Horse Doctor
06/22/2018 at 17:43 |
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In the category table, the only things that check out for both metal and rubber are cyanoacrylates, silicones, and urethanes. Respectively, they’re very good/very good, good/good, and good/good. The tricky thing with a CA (superglue relative) is that it might crack loose during application if the o-ring flexed/stretched. If you just need it to stay temporarily that wouldn’t be a problem, though there’s another weakness - bad with water-soluble substances.
There’s a Loctite CA designed explicitly for rubbers, so it might be your best bet - 404 QuickSet. It’s actually meant for gluing o-ring stock.
435 and 4090 are both flexible(!)CAs that can probably bond both rubber and S/S ok. 4902 is super-flexible, but might not do the surfaces that well.
Any further info to narrow it down? Temperature, chemical exposure, etc.? I’m betting that adhesion to the S/S won’t be a problem, particularly if it’s brush finish or a lathed part, but 401 is supposed to be more “surface insensitive” if adhesion looks tricky.
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SPAMBot - Horse Doctor
> RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
06/22/2018 at 17:53 |
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I’m using it to hold an O-ring in a groove for a set of test flanges. The groove is freshly cut on our lathe today. The flange will be used probably 40 times a day and I just need something to keep the O-ring in place. It’s not being installed on a critical piece of machinery but I don’t want it falling out while my guys test pumps. Temperature is ambient 55-100*Freedom and we no nasty chemicals. Just 100 PPM RO water. Pressure will be 100 psi max. Normally closer to 40 psi. Test time is between 5-15 minutes. Here is a picture of the flange.
Just need to keep that O-ring in that groove with repeated use
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RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
> SPAMBot - Horse Doctor
06/22/2018 at 18:17 |
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Might be okay with water, but cyanoacrylates can weaken with long-term exposure. RO might actually be worse than tap water because of stuff dissolving.
You might get some Fixmaster
Flex 80 urethane. It’s for conveyor
belt repair and the like, would most likely stick to the S/S juuuust fine, and it’s horrifying looking
tar-like stuff.
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SPAMBot - Horse Doctor
> RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
06/22/2018 at 18:23 |
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Ok, thank you!! I will do a bit of reading. I think you nudged me in the right direction. If the adhesive breaks down after a while I can always pull the O-ring, dissolve the dried crap, and reapply. Or I can try something else.